The Other View

‘No one person in here can represent everybody. It is a divided city. That is why we need a unionist Deputy Mayor. Through working together we could do a very good job- and unionists are afraid of that’.

The Other View’s Cameron Mitchell interviews the first republican Lord Mayor of Belfast...

Six months has passed since Belfast City Council elected its first republican Lord Mayor. Sinn Fein's Alex Maskey was voted into office by securing twenty-six of the fifty-one votes.Unionists turned their backs as the new Lord Mayor pledged to "work for all of the citizens of Belfast", appealing to all the parties, including unionists, to help him make the city a fairer and more prosperous place:

"My election to the position of Lord Mayor represents a landmark occasion in the development of the city of Belfast. For too long the image of Belfast has been tarnished by the inability of the City Council to operate in a manner characterised by fairness and equality. My appointment has to some degree consigned many of the past inequalities and discriminatory practices to the annals of history.

I am very conscious of the historic importance of my election. I am also conscious of the concerns that have been expressed by some politicians. I would like to assure them and the people that they represent that I have worked and will continue to work with all political parties in a collective way to provide civic leadership".

TOV: Do you feel this has been achieved?

"For a long time Belfast City Council was dominated by a squabble. It was a bear pit. I’m not saying that Sinn Fein didn't contribute to this, but it was in my view a bad council. In terms of leading Belfast - it didn’t lead. It carried sectarian polices. And while there has been a lot of improvements in recent years, it still has a long way to go in terms of a mature civic leadership.

But you can’t solve the problems of Belfast overnight. The message that I am trying to put across is that I am prepared to work hard and prepared to meet people half way, I am prepared to try and meet people three quarters of the way."

TOV: Who is there to meet you half way? - unionists are refusing to work with you and fill the position of Deputy Mayor.

"I have carried out a wide range of engagements since taken up office in the last number of months. That list of engagements has included dealing with unionists and their elected representatives. I have dealt with people from within the unionist community through dealing with schools, civic leaders, dealing with church people and business people, etc. I have met the British Legion and I have attended jubilee services."

TOV: But does the empty chair isolate you and limit your pledge to work with other parties in a 'collective and civic way'?

"Well, one of the things that I wanted to do was to show that in a city like Belfast, which has undoubtedly serious problems, political leaders are supposed to be working together to solve problems. You don’t solve problems by ignoring them or blaming everyone else. In my view, politicians are supposed to find solutions.

A key element of what I hoped to do during the year was to have a Deputy Mayor from the unionists, who would have been seen working with me. It is unfortunate that the unionists have not put up a Deputy Mayor. Some of them have privately acknowledged to me that part of their problem was that we would be seen to be working together. And some of them don’t want to do that in light of the forth-coming elections."

TOV: UUP Councillor Chris McGimpsey disagrees. He said that his party would not facilitate Sinn Fein because you cannot represent the entire city – for instance not attending any meetings if the police are there?

"I have chaired council meetings where police officers have been in giving their spiel and I have treated them with utmost courtesy, I have not dealt with anybody on a different basis. The chairperson of the Police Board was invited to my dinner. My own dinner was more inclusive than any other previous Lord Mayors. Unionists in particular have been completely disgraceful in terms of the people that they have excluded from their civic receptions.

I am a party politician - as every other lord mayor has been. There are six parties in Belfast - none of them can represent everybody. None. A nationalist isn’t a unionist, and a unionist cannot be expected to be a nationalist or republican. But what you have to do during your term in office is try and make sure you give respect in terms of equality. I don’t think that I have tried to treat anybody less than equal from anybody else.

I have had every tradition in this parlour, I have had loyalist working class residents in this parlour, who were never here before - never mind this parlour but in this building! I have had representatives of loyalism in this parlour. Unionist politicians have met me in this parlour.

No one person in here can represent everybody, it is a divided city. That is why we need a unionist deputy mayor. Through working together we could do a very good job - and unionists are afraid of that.

I may even be part of the problem - but I am prepared to be part of the solution, and I am going to insist that we find solutions. If that means I should make myself more accountable, so be it, that is what civic leadership is about."

TOV: Was that why you set up the Civic Advisory Council?

"The Civic Advisory Panel was an idea were I thought I would try and enlist views and opinions of people - in a sense it is like a follow on from the Good Friday Agreement. Broader civic society has to have a role in the wider politics of the place.

There are a lot of issues which have never properly been dealt with. I wanted to get opinions from people of the ethnic communities and people from a broader range of civic society in Belfast. This could advise me in the way any mayor should carry out their role - maybe better than what has been done in the past - or at least in a more developed way".

TOV: How do you feel when you hear people like the former Lord Mayor, Jim Rodgers, warn church and civic society against being "sucked" into such a group?

"Sad….sad. I would have thought that the role of any mayor should be to try and make sure that people are included. Why any mayor would be afraid of having people from the city advising them what to do or what not to do I can’t understand.

In terms of the Good Friday Agreement and the politics which underpins that, it is about inclusion and about embracing different opinions. Jim is of course anti-agreement, so in a way that explains were he is coming from. The reality is that people are engaging with myself. But I want people now and in the future to be advising the lord mayor in how they are conducting their job, and to provide a better service to people. I am breaking new ground here".

TOV: How significant was your meeting with John White of the Ulster Political Research Group?

"It was important for a number of reasons. One factor was that you could show that people who are painted up there as enemies can do business. What I was saying is that this parlour is open for business for whatever problems there may be out there or whatever obstacles people may think there are. I don’t have the right to tell a community who their representatives are. And I don’t intend to do that.

I was glad to have the opportunity to meet with him in that capacity. In the same token I was also seeing the working out of other agendas, such as the attacks in different areas and so on. I also wanted to make sure that we actually had a table upon which people could put forward their analysis and find solutions. I am pro-actively seeking other types of engagements with representatives that I am confident will pay off. "

TOV: You also suggested to David Ervine of the PUP, during the height of the violence in East Belfast that unionist and Sinn Fein politicians should go to flash point areas together?

"Well, that hasn't come to anything yet, and I am a bit disappointed that people who said that they wanted to break the mould have not yet done that. I can only work at the pace people are able to move on. I am trying to do my work on the basis of validating the position that I have adopted. I am trying to reach into the Unionist community, I want to do a lot more and intend to do a lot more.

TOV: There have been reports in the local press that some Sinn Fein 'hard-liners' are beginning to put pressure on you - that they are critical of your attempts to accommodate unionists. How do you ease these fears from within your own party?

'I am a republican and I bring my republican ideology to work. But the uppermost part of republicanism, for me, is equality and treating people as equals. I actually adopted 'Belfast A City of Equals' for my theme in office. You can't say you can do this without trying to find ways to do it.

I have went in and debated with other republicans, and said 'here's what I should be doing', 'here's what I need to do' and 'here's what I intend to do'. But the difficulty is that at times when we hear the same old reciprocal action from unionists, and my people tell me 'no matter what you do they want more'.

TOV: How was your decision to lay a wreath at the cenotaph in honour of those who died at the Somme received by republicans and also by the unionists?

"I wanted to make sure that this particular ceremony was conducted with some dignity. I was very conscious that when you try to make an initiative you could possibly make things worse. I consulted officers within the council, I consulted people within the broader unionist community, to try to minimise the offence that I might have caused, and I think I did that … well, other people can make that judgement. But I have been given some acknowledgement in the way I handled it from a broad range of people.I also understand why a lot of republicans and nationalists, who usually boycott these events, would hold these feelings . But I try to set out the context of why I was doing it. I am very pleased with response from that. It showed me that if you have the will to tackle an issue you can find ways to deal with it."

TOV: Is it time for nationalists and republicans to pay homage to those Irishmen who fought and died in these battles?

"Absolutely. But you have to recognise that it is a very multi-layered and complex issue. It is only within the last ten years that even the Irish Government has had an appropriate ceremony, Kilmanin, to commemorate those who lost their lives. Now that took some considerable controversy and debate. And I also, as Mayor of Belfast, attended that ceremony after I laid the wreath in Belfast.

So I think it is important to recognise those who lost their lives. First of all on it's own merit because people did lose their lives in those tragic wars and those tragic battles. So in the first instance as a matter of right, they should be respected for their sacrifice. If we can't respect the dead - how the hell do we respect the living? There is an added importance because the Somme in particular, more than any other battle, has been of a strong historical matter for those from the unionist communities in Belfast, though sometimes it may be for the wrong reasons.

So for me I thought it was a very important time to take that opportunity to reach into the unionist community on that basis."

TOV: Do you think the day will come when a unionist Lord Mayor will reciprocate your gesture and attend a ceremony for those Irish republicans who died?

"Well, I don't think so. Certainly not in the near future."

TOV: Will we ever see another republican Lord Mayor of Belfast?

"Oh yes … absolutely".

TOV: Soon?

"I don't know. My own party took the view that the lord mayor position and the deputy lord mayor position should be rotated around the parties. You do have a divided society here in Belfast. There are great opportunities and potential and the city has made good progress in recent years, but while we have this divided society there should be a shared civic leadership. And where better to start that than from within the Office of the Lord Mayor and Deputy Lord Mayor? So by right, it should come back to us in a short number of years".

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